egosoft.com

Reason for request : IS (In Sector, High Attention) Performance.

Prime Example - Halving the amount of modules needed to build the PHQ Wharf when preparing it for Terraforming.

And halving the amount of modules needed in general for all of your stations would work wonders for the games overall in sector performance.

Habitats. S = Accommodates 250 crew, M = 500, L = 1000 .. XL = 2000
Same for food/meds/storage modules.

If I could halve the amount of modules needed for a station using XL sized modules, performance in sector would be greatly improved.

Even if they are all just scaled up models of the L version would be good enough imho, and given double L stats/capability.

I struggle often to get a station which is overall game performance friendly enough, which also achieves my aims in game.

An XL/L Shipyard I have resigned to placing somewhere I will hardly ever visit, because optimally I cant produce one for my machines specs which does not impact FPS so much that it puts me off entering the sector, let alone landing on it.
An alternative approach ofc is to make smaller stations as opposed to a huge self sufficient station, but then more stations also = less optimal game performance.

Quite often I look towards making my Shipyard or Wharf better at production, after watching over time what resources are on average falling behind. Say I notice the station could do with one more Microchip production module, but then shy away from doing that because it would tip the balance of needing more crew, which also includes increasing med and food supply .. From needing to add 1 more module I would need to add 4 = I dont, and instead rely on traders coming in randomly with the shortfall. XL modules reducing the overall amount of modules would allow me to add a few more to get the perfect balance.
I know if we were given more players would generally use more, but in my machine spec case it would be a great enabler for desired production and preventing building mega stations to achieve the aim.

The game needs XL sized modules, please .. DOOOO EEEEEET!
(I know its not an insignificant ask, I'll get the biscuits in).

Not a tech support issue, so moving to the main forum.

Nanook wrote: ↑

Sun, 5. May 24, 19:17

Not a tech support issue, so moving to the main forum.

, thank you

I think this was asked before and talked about at length - but it was long ago.

I like the idea of having, say, an 8X module that acts like 8 production modules lashed together. 8 times the output, 8 times the input, 8 times the required crew, and 8 times the build time. Perhaps make it twice as long/high/wide, too, so it takes up 8 times the space. Do the same for habitation and storage modules. They would be short on turrets, but they would take up less space than even the most efficient placement of 8 normal modules.

(I'm assuming it's polygons in the module that are causing the slowdown. Making a double sized one would have the same number of polygons. If that's not the cause, then this might not help at all.)

i've just had this discussion again with a streamer last night.

X3 FL had a nice way to upgrade stations. making them produce 2x and 4x by upgrading the module (the color of the module changed to indicate its an upgraded one).
we imagined this could work in x4 aswell. to make stations required for terraforming and the like smaller.

make it cost something obviously.
just some examples given:
first upgrade costs engine parts to increase machine productivity.
second upgrade costs advanced composites to radiate heat into space.
and a third upgrade ... come up with something.

what exactly is needed and what the exact bonus is, is up to discussion/imagination. just make it "relatively easy" (doesn't mean cheap!) and don't interfere too much with the existing economy (like 1million hull parts - which are needed for everthing already, especially in early game). some ressources are not being used as much as others - which creates an opportunity to use them for the upgrading process.

and if not for the vanilla game (for whatever reason. manpower, money, time), then i'd love a mod for it tbh.

Thats .. a good idea. Upgrading modules would also solve it, instead of Egosoft having to provide different versions of models for an XL module in each case.
Though I think habitat modules still need to be a bit visually larger to accomodate all the extra bodies, 2000 Borons in an L Sized Oasis would be packed in like sardines.

it is a good idea which may be done without serious additional work. We already have got 'compressing cargo' stuff so the XL/XXL modules does not need new 3D models, recoouring would do the trick (though even without it it would be just fine, finally some reason to actually scan te station) - and if one so desire, there will be a modder probably which grant that wish.

Though I would be careful with the production size because that might get out of the hand pretty quickly resulting in so big influx of stuff into the game that it may derail it completely. And - if the factions (including PC) would get that, Xenons/Khaaks (as much as it is applicable) should get this gift also, otherwise they will be stomped out in no time.

Borons can be packed like sardines, indeed They are herd-fish anyway.

TroubledRabbit wrote: ↑

Tue, 7. May 24, 19:33

~ and if one so desire, there will be a modder probably which grant that wish.

Well if a modder turns their hand to it, good, but then we lose Ventures, so modding the idea would not help in my case.

alt3rn1ty wrote: ↑

Tue, 7. May 24, 19:47

Well if a modder turns their hand to it, good, but then we lose Ventures, so modding the idea would not help in my case.

Sry - I have not took this into account. Never got any interest in the 'online' part of the X4. And I am always *modified* anyway.

TroubledRabbit wrote: ↑

Tue, 7. May 24, 19:33

...
Though I would be careful with the production size because that might get out of the hand pretty quickly resulting in so big influx of stuff into the game that it may derail it completely. And - if the factions (including PC) would get that, Xenons/Khaaks (as much as it is applicable) should get this gift also, otherwise they will be stomped out in no time.
...

it WILL get out of hand. just like building megastations with as many modules as possible.
so i wouldn't be suprised if the idea doesn't even make it on to the drawing board (and thats also maybe why we still don't have smth like it... or it might be not as easy as we think it is) - players will cheese it at all cost (unless it is as tedious as modding ships x) ). even if the intention is to keep the numbers of stations and modules down for better game performance

Aetatis wrote: ↑

Tue, 7. May 24, 22:13

~ even if the intention is to keep the numbers of stations and modules down for better game performance

Yes thats my only reason for requesting this.

alt3rn1ty wrote: ↑

Wed, 8. May 24, 13:59

Aetatis wrote: ↑

Tue, 7. May 24, 22:13

~ even if the intention is to keep the numbers of stations and modules down for better game performance

Yes thats my only reason for requesting this.

Trade-off. An activity (terraforming) project requires N tons of matter. That creates two needs:
1) PHQ has to be able to hold N tonnes at once. This is a hard need
2) N tonnes must be gathered/produced

The minimum requirement is thus to have a PHQ that has storage for N tonnes. If your PC burst in flames when you build that much storage modules, then you are out of luck. AFAIK, one can fit that much storage into the plot of PHQ -- that is not an issue. The ideas in this (and earlier) threads are for how to get same amount of storage with less effect on framerate at expense of build time and cost.

One could for example, replace a storage module model with simpler box (look at Xbtf graphics); same volume but higher price to build -- and less graphics. The PHQ plot would still fit the same amount of storage. It would just cost more, "run better", (and look "different"). Nobody could "cheese" with that; one pays for FPS, if they so choose.


The other part is gathering, production. One could simply gather all needed wares from NPC factories. (I've done that so far.) It takes time and credits. If one builds own factories, that takes time and credits too. If one could build "more efficient" factories, that should take more time and credits than regular factories. Point is though that all those "FPS eaters" are optional; given enough time you will have N tonnes.

+1 for XL modules


Less problems with crazy 500+ modules megaplexes
more blueprints
more station design option
more late game stuff to spend money and having another step in progression ladder.

This is just an opinion, but I have to agree with Aetatis here. While I understand the intent, in practice what would happen is that people would just use these modules to create stations with the same number of modules as before, but producing twice as much output. That would ultimately result in players needing more ships to supply them, but also in them being able to produce more ships, which in turn means lower overall framerates because ships are actually more performance intensive than stations. Incidentally, if your answer to that is "let's have XL cargo ships as well then", then all you're actually doing is making the game use bigger numbers to achieve the same result!

CBJ wrote: ↑

Wed, 8. May 24, 17:31

Incidentally, if your answer to that is "let's have XL cargo ships as well then", then all you're actually doing is making the game use bigger numbers to achieve the same result!

True. And since we would multiply all numbers by X, we would also multiply the numbers in, say terraforming projects; if it now takes 100 ships to carry the stuff, then after making the ships 10 times bigger it would still take 100 ships ...


We did not build "sektorgigakomplex" in X3R because there was a need, but because we could. That urge has not been quenched.

CBJ wrote: ↑

Wed, 8. May 24, 17:31

~While I understand the intent, in practice what would happen is that people would just use these modules to create stations with the same number of modules as before, but producing twice as much output.~

I would just build the same stations I have with less modules for better performance of the game on a less than ideal machine.
Output of my Wharf and Shipyard stations is fine for me. But I do understand other people may well do that.

And to be honest, I reckon by the time any of the work for this idea is done .. I will have bought my next machine which will make the need for this evaporate.
Ok guys thanks for the input, made me realise this is not such an easy ask as I thought, and probably not worth the effort in doing it.

Interesting - if ships hurt more than the station modules themselves, then maybe the way to keep framerate up is to keep the ship count low. If you could convince everyone to trade with you using L ships and buy in bulk (i.e. don't use the L ship like a terribly slow S ship), that should help the framerate out a lot.

Zloth2 wrote: ↑

Thu, 9. May 24, 00:46

Interesting - if ships hurt more than the station modules themselves, then maybe the way to keep framerate up is to keep the ship count low. If you could convince everyone to trade with you using L ships and buy in bulk (i.e. don't use the L ship like a terribly slow S ship), that should help the framerate out a lot.

In my experience too many ships (Windfall sectors VIG spammed fighters is the worst offender), or if I build my Shipyard/Wharf stations to have a few more modules, either of those scenarios are detrimental to performance. Add to that an existensial crisis popping in to where either of my only two big stations are .. I really dont want the crisis to happen ever.

I'm only using L Traders and L Miners to work for the stations (biggest reason is anti Kha'ak, but performance was a deciding factor). Other factions will use M Traders, but honestly I dont know how many in proportion to Ls are coming in, and I need the M docks on both stations, the S/M Wharf on the PHQ is needed for building Terraforming drones. So those are unavoidable I think.

Overall I dont have any huge fleets, the ones that are big I limit to what size is comfortable to me when in sector (high attention). My Shark carrier for example is limited to how many Barracuda fighters it can launch while I am in sector, it doesn't have a full compliment, and all my ships are distributed around the map on various tasks, but will never all be ordered in to the same sector.

FPS for me is a huge factor for enjoyment of the occasional dog fights I get into, so all of my assets have been carefully considered.
Game settings are mostly low.