Bug report consideration process.

[PV_]

Can anyone of Egosoft staff explain how bug report review is happening? Are there any inner or unspoken rules which you may shed a light on?
All what is following next based on my assumption of the [#...] tag is a marker which is appear left on the bug report title if the issue is investigated and put under future fixing. If that assumption is wrong then can you clarify how, when and if non-tagged threads get attention and fix probabilities.

I do understand that there is a lot of not described mechanics in the game. And while player may consider them stupid there are indeed may exist inner reasons to left it as is. But some of mechanics have description. Clearly visible text which doesn't leave room for being ambiguous. When player post a bug report with proper description which clearly asserts that mechanics works rather opposite way than described one -> they expect some outcome:
1) Mentioned tag will appear. Obvious behavior for a bug under fixing work.
2) The issue is investigated and not reproduced. And appropriate reply appear in the report thread. Cuz nobody at Egosoft staff full of ignorance to the time, efforts and resources (save file size) player spend to prepare bug report.
3) Bug will never become considered. I understand Egosoft is small company and don't expect impossible. Perhaps there is preliminary sorting of game braking bugs on the one hand and everything players may live with for some time on the other. First ones go first and rest is ignored. May be there should appear a lot of reports for the same issue from different people.

So when there is no #1 or #2 for a bug report then it is most likely #3 or I've missed something? And here is more clarification is needed as well as the steps to make report 100% viable for investigation. Like post bugs only on even months or right before next DLC etc... Since when a player gets that tag for a bug thread and later finds exactly same report by another pilot and it was made 4-5 months ago and completely ignored makes the player a bit upset.

[Alan Phipps]

My personal take on what is likely to happen. A dev may correct or expand upon this assessment.

The #number means that the issue has been entered by an experienced coordinator onto the internal Egosoft bugtracker along with links to any supplied or obtained evidence and supporting information (typically after some issue/situational verification, elimination of duplication, and a rough triage involving game impact, complexity, and potential ability to address). An entered serial would be allocated to the correct dev area that can best address it.

Under separate project management, the priorities and resource allocations for dev area work and investigations will be reviewed. This takes account of all allocated commitments whether investigative, bug-fixing, or ongoing or new development work. There is no fixed timeframe for any one issue to be investigated or resolved, although a major update, DLC or engine/physics change may invalidate many prior reports.

New/later reports covering the same issue as a previous report already allocated a #number would either be given the same #number and their further evidence linked in the bugtracker, or given the prefix [DUP] for duplicate if they add little new supporting evidence. (All ideally.)

Dev area pizza and coffee support allocations will later be adjusted accordingly.

[PV_]

Okay, there is some useful info. But that "There is no fixed timeframe for any one issue to be investigated" leads to major problem - the save file accessibility. Which makes report vulnerable to save erase during cloud storage cleaning since that storage is limited and there is no feedback if that file is ever needed for months.

Not long ago there was bug with station planning. Building stopped when some bugged module reached. And there was the bug report on the issue. Someone of Egosoft staff posted a reply there assuring it will be fixed next patch. And since I saw that report I was calm thinking everything is under control. But later in Steam arbitrary forum thread moderator mentions developers can't fix the issue, cuz no save file left. I don't want to discuss why someone asserts issue will be fixed while neglected to even copy file first and forgets to mention that in the thread afterwards. I'm talking about bug report relevance after long time of silence. And there is a case when player spent their time/efforts on report and... nothing... seems to... happened. Because there is no feedback from another side of the process. I have to notice I'm talking about very obvious bug for anyone who has eyes and IQ above zero, not just about "likings". And there is no "DUP", #numbers. Nothing.

Another case once again -> there was report for like 4-5 months before mine one. And only my got #number tag. Why? Aren't bugs have to be investigated as timeline order?

[Irushian]

I agree with PV_, it'd be good to get more feedback on our bug reports so that at the very least we know it's being looked at. I have old save files in my google drive that I'm unsure if I'm free to remove. I have old bug reports that gained the [#] tracker but no idea if it's something that's being worked on and if so for when, and if it'll fix my save retroactively etc (station plot report as an example).

I love Egosoft and all of their games, I've been a fan since the original X rolling demo that made me sulk like a baby as my machine didn't meet the specs to play it back in the day, but I wish there was a public bug tracker that would show the status of the reports (such as fixed/being worked on or pending) etc. The way things are currently is a bit off putting to file reports and it's only my love for the game and the company that I continue to do so.

[Ketraar]

I agree with PV_, it'd be good to get more feedback on our bug reports so that at the very least we know it's being looked at. I have old save files in my google drive that I'm unsure if I'm free to remove. I have old bug reports that gained the [#] tracker but no idea if it's something that's being worked on and if so for when, and if it'll fix my save retroactively etc (station plot report as an example).

All reports that have been marked have the files that go with the report be uploaded to internal server, this is the main reason why we add the reports to internal tracker.

... but I wish there was a public bug tracker that would show the status of the reports...

Just no, sorry. Not only is a public tracker bad as it allows for all sorts of reports which just results in a flood of useless reports, creating huge overhead just to sift through them. The way we do now is to allow a few people to use it that we can manage and as such have a more organized system that doesn't waste devs time just sifting through noise. The other part about to the status is not really helpful and just creates expectations. All reports are pending by default and its not always clear when they get addressed, so there is no real information to display that would not be misleading. Devs reply in reports when they have something concrete to say.

Dont really want to go deep into details on the inner workings tbh, but can say that we do try to address all reports, but as Alan wrote, time is finite and has to be juggled, we do try to read all reports and address them, especially in beta and tech support forums. It can happen that a post is missed, doesnt mean it was ignored. What I also can say is that we are always on the lookout for L5 devnet members, so if anyone is interested in being more hands on with reporting, feel free to raise your hand (aka PM an Admin or me).

One important thing to say is that we do appreciate the effort people make in reporting issues, even more so when they follow the rules in the stickies and create good reports. These do help devs a lot and even if its not said outloud often, let me say it for all now. Thanks for your time and I hope you don't feel discouraged to continue to do so in future.

MFG

Ketraar

[Irushian]

... but I wish there was a public bug tracker that would show the status of the reports...

Just no, sorry. Not only is a public tracker bad as it allows for all sorts of reports which just results in a flood of useless reports, creating huge overhead just to sift through them.

My apologies for not being clear, I wasn't wishing for one that we could add to but a read-only view for us to see. This way we can follow any progress of bugs that have been reported instead of having to rely on forum searches and hoping a developer has responded.

[Ketraar]

This way we can follow any progress of bugs that have been reported instead of having to rely on forum searches and hoping a developer has responded.

As mentioned above you would not see anything what you don't see already, there is no magic "this will be fixed in 3 days" thing, its not how it works sorry.

MFG

Ketraar

[Alan Phipps]

Another factor that adds to the general issue confusion is when a player has submitted a save that reliably replicates the problem on their system, but a dev loads it on theirs and cannot see any issue. The fact that we don't all have the same hardware, software, settings, grasp of the full game installation (nor even luck) can sometimes make the whole investigation fraught from the outset.

[chew-ie]

I get the sentiment of users - in times where you can track the state / location of almost everything (flights, parcels, children..) it just won't happen on a bug / mini feature level in software development. For that to happen you'd have to sign (and pay ^^) some kind of mini SLA to have any entitlement for tracking the state of a solution what could've been _your personal problem_.

As both sides (developer/company and customer) would fail to even formulate the basics of such a "mini SLA" I'd say: this isn't going to happen. (why would one sign a mini SLA if other benefit from that as well - customers won't understand that - and there surely never will be something like "personalized patches". At least I do hope I'm out of the business when those things get common ^^)

On the other hand, never say never - there also were cases of people buying virtual starships for 1000s of $. Maybe it's worth a try for a rent-an-egosoft-dev-for-one-month approach.

Every other problem ("common" bug / major feature) has to be clustered (or split up) and worked on by the team - which is as Ketraar described it never public as it would create expectations. In worst case scenarios devs can also work on things which don't get in a release or find no solution at all. People who miss that tiny bit of information would bring out the pitchforks and torches.

[PV_]

Dont really want to go deep into details on the inner workings tbh, but can say that we do try to address all reports, but as Alan wrote, time is finite and has to be juggled, we do try to read all reports and address them, especially in beta and tech support forums. It can happen that a post is missed, doesnt mean it was ignored.

Okay, but what is the time since the bug report was published and there is no response for player to understand its time to get rid of save file? I mean it shouldn't be forever.

Another factor that adds to the general issue confusion is when a player has submitted a save that reliably replicates the problem on their system, but a dev loads it on theirs and cannot see any issue. The fact that we don't all have the same hardware, software, settings, grasp of the full game installation (nor even luck) can sometimes make the whole investigation fraught from the outset.

Yes and that I've written at the very first comment. And I suppose it would be right to leave corresponding reply in the report thread. Perhaps with the link on the page with common description of hardware, software etc issues.

Every other problem ("common" bug / major feature) has to be clustered (or split up) and worked on by the team - which is as Ketraar described it never public as it would create expectations.

Why expectations are bad? At least people would know something happens and they aren't ignored. Feeling player's work isn't waste of time even if its something put on the back burner is much better than deep silence.

[chew-ie]

Every other problem ("common" bug / major feature) has to be clustered (or split up) and worked on by the team - which is as Ketraar described it never public as it would create expectations.

Why expectations are bad? At least people would know something happens and they aren't ignored. Feeling player's work isn't waste of time even if its something put on the back burner is much better than deep silence.

Just look around [in the internet]. Expectation management is something very few people are capable of. Nowadays you have to invest time & money in order to avoid / not getting drowned in pitchfork & torch waves (aka shitstorms). People feel ~very~ entitled these days. For everything. Without even knowing wether or not they really are.

[Ketraar]

Okay, but what is the time since the bug report was published and there is no response for player to understand its time to get rid of save file? I mean it shouldn't be forever.

As mentioned, if the report has a number then the save and related files have been uploaded to Ego Servers.

MFG

Ketraar

[PV_]

As mentioned, if the report has a number then the save and related files have been uploaded to Ego Servers.

Yeah, I have read that. What I'm asking is about NO [#number] tag in the report thread. When it is safe to clear out the attached save file?

[gorman2040]

As mentioned, if the report has a number then the save and related files have been uploaded to Ego Servers.

Great, thanks for that, I will go do some cleaning in my Google Drive.